That isn’t a one-handed weapon with a ball on a chain. The art world has acknowledged (and even occasionally celebrated) the fakes in their museum collections for decades now. If anything, they add more likelihood to the existence of actual military flails (otherwise why bother making them) but that aside, trying to suggest that something from five or six centuries later provides a historical argument for a given period is the worst kind of historical dishonesty. But the main selling point of some of these fancy weapons was their ability to disguise as farming tools. When ninja needed new concealable weapons that should not reveal what they really where they devloped techniques and modifications of these tools to get the job done.
Can you give a source for that please? However, the mace, being rigid, allows the fighter to follow through the swing with their whole body. While many old weapons could be used without knowledge (like a broadsword or a quarterstaff), they would be a 100 times more dangerous if the user knew how to wield them. To their credit, due to the questions over their provenance the Met no longer displays their flails in the museum. No less an expert than George Cameron Stone fell into this trap, writing that Chinese war swords were undoubtedly clumsy and unwieldy, when anyone who has ever watched a trained expert handle such a weapon knows this to be far from the truth. Interesting! Check out our other SRD sites! A 400 year old precuser to the over the top religious images of Warhammer 40K perhaps? The lance, sword, and mace were always better ideas. You don’t know that.
One, it’s on a long staff and so its area of lethal effect is held safely past the head and hands of the wielder. In a tightly packed formation, a swinging weapon would be as likely to brain your fellow soldiers as it would your enemies. This was exactly what flails were for; you were told rightly. A couple of points to make about the morgenstern though. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#chainSpiked. | Dungeon World SRD
Also I don’t see how you’d grapple a shield with a flail.
But given it did exist in similar forms elsewhere in the world, did exist as a two handed version in Europe and was depicted in contemporary manuscript illustrations (however fantastical) I think it’s a hard sell to say “didn’t exist” as in no-one ever gave it a go in battle. My player wants to have a kusarigama, or a variant more like a dagger, and I'm wondering what it's stats would be and if it's viable. I found straight armed blows with no fancy whirling (as in hollywood!)
What will be left once we peel away all the fake dark ages stuff? If people went to battle with rocks tied to a stick, they most certainly used a primitive weapon like this at a certain point. Zombie. How well attested are they? https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C. look at the spiked chain stats from 3.5 and reflavor it, some work will have to be done to make it 5e compatible, but i would also either make him get some kind of training/quest or burn a feat to be proficient with it.
At any rate, neither of them were «common» weapons, at least for the time, and I assume the fencing masters wrote about them because they were supposed to know about everything fencing-wise. .
With its close distance to the body during combat I don’t think the flail would be able to get back there with enough impact to matter. I guess you could make a flail with back-curved arms like a grappling hook, but I’ve never seen one of those attested. He also refered and urged all to use only the noble weapons to avoid unneeded killings. Also an Asian weapon. I read some similar debunking of chastity belts earlier this year. These attributes have made it so successful in its afterlife because they fit so perfectly into the vision of the Middle Ages: the one that is inexorably dark, crude and violent. Then the answer is, yes they did? 1) You don’t make factual assertions about things you can conclusively not prove – ‘they didn’t exist’. In conclusion, the war-flail (or kisten) very much existed and was in use, but not throughout entire Europe. Why not just let them dual wield a dagger and scythe sickle, and let them chain a dagger to the scythe sickle for easy retrieval? That would further lead to the possibility (or likelihood) that some weapon smiths would have tried to replicate it. He addressed both of those points in the article. Downloads There are much easier weapons to learn to use that will reach past the shield with less practice (flexible weapons are much less predictable and more complicated than fixed weapons), and momentum is lost on impact–there is very little follow through with even a massive flail. This isn’t the only case of this. There’s no reason to degrade the person you’re talking with unless you have a weak argument that can’t stand on its own logic alone. Seems like there is enough of a plausible vector for knowledge of it, coupled with natural human ingenuity/stupidity to suggest at least one ambitious idiot would have tried one. literally had the whip hand over his men; I imagine it would not have been meant as an actual weapon, any more than the rod of a herald. But that does show that they did exist within the context of XVII century Iberia. In an applicable weapon, the chain would’ve been short enough to pose no danger to the hand of the wielder, but still allow the energy of the swing to be transferred into the head whereupon the spikes would grip the inside of the shield or even stick into it, if wood, so it could be ripped away, or break the shield arm. Looking at the design of the flail, one could suppose that when it was no longer needed, it may have been scrapped and turned into a more civilian tool, or simply discarded, which would have meant that there might not be very many (if any) left, if they were not common to begin with. That sort of flail– developed from the agricultural threshing implement– is very well attested. While you are doubtless right that it is unweildy, there are other cultures that use flails in battle: notably the Japanese where peasants, forbidden from carrying swords, used variants of rice flails and threshers (e.g. Regular swords were seen as hard to use on horseback due to the fact that cutting into someone with a regular sword on horseback causes your sword to most likely catch. For similar reasons, flails have featured in medieval films that present the world as brutish and uncivilized. This one, Dr. Dupras, says, takes its form from a horsewhip (a “goad”) instead of a military weapon.
the right answer is, no they did not. To that point, there are chain-and-weight type weapons in Japanese-style martial arts. 4) The mass flail collection conspiracy, or how the New World Order and Lizard People decided that inserting fake flails would advance their nefarious plans. Another can be seen in Ridley Scott’s 2005 film Kingdom of Heaven, wielded by a knight attempting to assassinate the hero: And, In The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Peter Jackson famously armed the Witch King with the mother of all flails. I can see it causing a lot of damage if it connected, but if you missed, it could be a disaster. Interesting points, somewhat akin to those made about some medieval torture instruments (like the Iron Maiden) and Victorian inventions of chastity belts. That the medieval military flail exists at all is probably the most fascinating thing about it.
In 1530 pope Clement VII indeed made a decree that outlawed this but not only this “weapon” from war and jousting for two reasons. http://wiktenauer.com/images/thumb/a/af/Cod.icon._394a_84v.jpg/300px-Cod.icon._394a_84v.jpg. Searches must be at least 3 characters.
Ever hit a solid object with a bat and get anything from the tingles to complete temporary loss of the use of your arm? They seem like a very impractical design for anything but hitting yourself. I remember a book series some years ago called Falcon which related the adventures of a former crusader named Draco DE Montefalcon who was a leader of a band of mercenary warriors, one of the book characters carried a flail of the ball and chain variety with the spiked ball. this allowed infantry time to break formation and regroup at worst, and kill the rider at best.
If it was more of a duelists weapon that would explain why they were not issued to troops…. As you start by saying it’s difficult to prove a negative. In personal combat he used a buckler and instead of swinging the flail he would snap it it out and back much the same way you would work a bullwhip.
I believe you’re thinking of the kusarigama (kusari = chain, gama/kama = scythe), but I can’t speak to its origin. It looks that in the military use the weapons were intended as a cavalry secondary weapon, so they were one of the array of weapons to choose from for a particular situation. the spiked ball shot backwards at face level (missing mine by inches), missed the head of another observer who was 20′ *behind me* by inches . One characteristic of a weapon like this is the angle at which the impact would be delivered. I was interested in the argument about the manuscript illustrations being fantastical representations of warriors from the ‘middle east’. The chain managed to get the scythe at a high placed twig and with a short pull on th chain it should be cut of th bush. So it may very well be a rarely-used or non-existing weapon to the Europeans to the West of Poland, supporting your article. My guess is that, if they existed, they were anti-shield weapons. Prove it in the comments…. Assuming they can be documented. That many of the poorer troops went to war with weapons that ranged from long knives to agricultural implements, while many of the richer ones carried equipment that would not have been out of place in armories of centuries before. Given the lack of understanding in Europe about the non-European world is it possible that as it WAS a weapon in China there was a belief it was just a ‘Eastern’ weapon? I will be happy to provide further information on these matters if you need it. I looked at the Met’s flails with the help of Dr. Nickolas Dupras, an expert in medieval arms and armour. Is there enough carbon in the steel to get an accurate age or would obtaining enough for a sample destroy the flail?
The few that we have dated to that period are authentic, but they are rare in collections because they represent a dead end. I doubt there would’ve been much bounce-back, because the idea behind the flail was that you swung it overhead, over the top of the opponent’s shield. However, I know in D&D, one can use a flail to disarm an opponent, so the chain wrapping around an enemy’s sword would have that advantage. His usage of it was unique he would either work in tandem with another soldier and use the ball to stick to a shield pull it down while the other soldier cut the fellow down. Montante usage, itself, is desgribed mainly against multiple opponents, as a weapon of crowd control or to break formations or to defend a spot (a door, something or someone lying on the ground) against a group of attackers, etc, which allows us to assume that the flail was used similarly. I suspect the flail had religious overtones and was therefore more of a ceremonial or “for show” piece for the pious knight.
The kusarigama was at its origin a tool to trow into a bush (that was to height to get from the ground and to weak to support a ladder), that had to be cut short. Sell at the Open Gaming Store! Firearms are optional weapons for a campaign, though they are a prerequisite for having the Gunslinger class in your game.
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